Interview: Hong Kong Freedom Fighter (Part 1)
Part 1 of my discussion with a pro-democracy protestor from Hong Kong
It still boggles my mind how quickly the beautiful, burgeoning city of Hong Kong went from being an example of the benefits of freedom and capitalism to just another city. Just another Communist-controlled city where freedom of speech and freedom of the press is suppressed, where there is no democracy, and the government is chosen not by the people but by the higher authorities. Not many people in 2018 could have guessed the state in which Hong Kong finds itself today. This interview is a warning to the nations of the world. No one is exempt.
This is part 1 of my discussion with a Hong Kong freedom fighter who asked me to refer to him simply as “Michael,” so as to protect himself from the seemingly ever-present eyes and ears of the Chinese Communist government.
Antonio: Hello, Michael, thank you for agreeing to virtually sit down and talk with me, even at your own peril.
Michael: Thank you, very much. Happy to speak with you.
A: I want to begin by allowing you to tell us a little bit about your involvement in the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong. I understand you may want to omit some details for safety reasons. But what can you tell us about the protests in 2019 and what it was like in Hong Kong at that time?
M: Sure, that’s a pretty long story. So, just to make it clear, I’m an ex-pat. I’m a permanent resident of Hong Kong now. Grew up in Canada, lived in the U.S. prior to moving here.
I’ve always been interested in politics, particularly Hong Kong politics. I took part in the Umbrella Movement back in 2014, although back then I was much more of a visitor/tourist, observing what was going on as opposed to participating. But that’s what really got me interested in Hong Kong politics.
In the Spring of 2019, the government introduced the Extradition Bill. It’s a bill by which they would be able to extradite people for crimes committed on the mainland and in Taiwan and Macau. And in my view, and a lot of people’s view, it opened a door for political abuse where people could be extradited to the mainland for charges of a political basis. They claimed it would only be for criminal charges, but it included a wide swath of corporate crimes, which in my view could easily tip into disputes of a political nature.
Pretty much every swath of society was against the bill. The business people, the accountants, the doctors, the teachers. Both the bar society and the legal society were against it. The opposition asked the government to discuss it and the government refused. When they go to pass laws here in Hong Kong they typically have a public forum to discuss. They declined to do the norm for that and decide to push the bill through.
The response…was we’re going to pass this bill anyway, we don’t care what you have to say.
People started getting more and more angry, and there were some small demonstrations. And then there was a very large one planned for June 9th, 2019. Some friends asked me if I would attend, so I did attend. That was the first million person march. And the response from the government after we had a million people marching—super hot day, 85 or 90 degrees Fahrenheit with 80 percent humidity—that evening was [expletive] you, we’re going to pass this bill anyway, we don’t care what you have to say.
So Wednesday morning, June 12th, very early in the morning—and this was before Telegram chats and that stuff—there were tens of thousands of people gathered, and they encircled the Legislative Council building, right in the middle of Hong Kong. I went down there but left before things got hairy. But that was when things really kicked off. The police got aggressive with the protesters, the protesters got aggressive back. Eventually, stuff got thrown. The police used tear gas, they pepper-sprayed and beat people. And that was really the birth of the movement.
A: Moving forward, can you tell us a little bit about the National Security Law and how all of that went down.
M: Yeah, so the protests went on through all of 2019 and into January of 2020, and basically calmed down after the start of the COVID-19 pandemic. Hong Kong suffered a lot under SARS so they were very, very cautious about COVID, and the government put out a lot of rules on gatherings starting in February.
And then we found out around May or June that Beijing was going to pass a National Security Law for Hong Kong. But they didn’t tell anybody what was in it. They didn’t involve any Hong Kongers. Not even Carrie Lam, the chief executive, had any idea what was in the law. They don’t trust her either. People here in Hong Kong really dislike her. People in Beijing really dislike her. That’s the one thing everybody agrees on, that she’s a terrible leader.
A: I didn’t know that. I thought Beijing actually liked her, given she’s basically been their puppet.
M: No, she’s messed up the situation so bad. Misrepresented the Hong Kong people to Beijing so poorly that they thought about firing her, but I think they just kept her there as punishment, to be honest. And she’s mishandled COVID and like every other thing under the planet. So they really dislike her, and they didn’t involve her or tell her about the NSL.
The Hong Kong government basically found out at the same time we did. Beijing sent out the actual writing of the law around 11 P.M. on June 30th, to go into effect at 12:01, July 1st. So, only about an hour’s notice.
The NSL forbids all sorts of things. It forbids things that encourage independence or secession from mainland China. It prohibits vicious language. It claims authority over everything in Hong Kong. It mandates that the government get more involved in our everyday lives. It mandates patriotic education. The NSL gives the government more control over the media. And it is also extraterritorial in nature. They claim anyone who violates the NSL, anyone who, say, advocates Hong Kong independence, even if they’re not Chinese and not in China—like you—they claim authority over you, and claim the right to arrest you should you ever come anywhere near Hong Kong territory.
A: Unbelievable.
M: Yeah, it’s unbelievable. That was put into place on July 1st. There were still, believe it or not, fifty-thousand people that went out and protested. A bit of a different kind of protest. People walking around, playing cat-and-mouse with the police, shouting what the police would call salacious slogans. Shouting when they were far away and shutting up when the police got close. But everyone was wearing masks so no one could tell who was shouting what. It was kind of ridiculous.
They arrested a few people at the protests, and subsequently around one-hundred more people using the power of the NSL, including virtually every pro-democracy politician.
A: Wow. So how would you describe the general attitude of the normal Hong Kong citizen since the passing of the NSL?
M: First, just a couple of other things that happened since the passing of the NSL. They arrested all of the pro-democracy leaders, they arrested people who attended the Tiananmen Square vigils back in 2019. They’ve arrested reporters, fired teachers. They’ve threatened movie theaters into not showing certain movies. They threatened the new art center into not showing any art that insults China.
One of the bigger things they did was arresting forty-seven pro-democracy politicians simply for organizing and holding a primary election back in July where 600,000 Hong Kongers voted. They arrested them for trying to win the election because if they would have won then the government would have to negotiate with them and they didn’t like that. So they arrested them and charged them with sedition and trying to overthrow the government.
It’s just completely insane…people are scared.
It’s just completely insane. You know, the Hong Kong people showed a lot of grit during the protests in standing up to the police and that sort of stuff, but now they’re scared. Twelve people who tried to leave Hong Kong were captured by mainland authorities and held there, and from the evidence, it seems like they were probably psychologically abused. Nobody really knows what’s happening.
People are scared. A lot of young people are considering moving to places like Canada. There is a visa program for people who are recent graduates from school. A lot of people here are eligible for the British national overseas passport which allows them to live there for five years without a visa and then apply for citizenship afterward. A lot of people are scared and a lot of people are moving.
Not everybody can move, though. People sometimes think of Hong Kong as this very rich place because we have more millionaires per capita than anywhere on the planet and there is a lot of ridiculous wealth here. But the fact of the matter is 70 to 80 percent of the people live on quite limited means, so most of them can’t move. But a very high percentage of the ones who can move—who I would call the professional class—are leaving.
And, to be clear, it’s not like just walking down the street something is going to happen to you. But there’s no freedom of speech, no ability to speak out. No ability to criticize the government or government policy.
And the government is now controlling the education system and people don’t want their children educated in a system where you can’t discuss Tiananmen Square. Where the protests of 2019 never happened. Where they don’t teach you that democracy is the best for the people.
Some of the older people are going to stay. It’s really hard because everybody has family here, Hong Kong is their home, Cantonese is their language, this is their culture. So they don’t have a lot of choices; but I think probably of people between the ages of 20 and 40 of the upper-middle class, I’d say up to 40 percent are going to leave. The super-rich already has multiple passports. Even the government is getting out. Carrie Lam’s family lives in the UK. The education secretary’s kids go to school in Australia, so they don’t have to live under this. It’s pure hypocrisy.
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